Immigration Solutions Lawyers' Anne O'Donoghue: 'Justice delayed is justice denied'

Kylie Speer  00:00:00 
Kyle, hello and welcome to Australasian Lawyer TV. I'm Kylie Speer, and joining me today is Anne O'Donoghue,  Director and Senior Counsel of all tribunal matters at Immigration Solutions Lawyers. Immigration Solutions Lawyers has been named winner of Australasian Lawyer's Top Specialist Firms for 2025 Welcome to you, Anne, congratulations, and thank you so much for joining us today.  

Anne Frances O'Donoghue  00:00:32 
Oh, it's great to be with you today, and nice to catch up again, because I think we had three other occasions when we were chatting and did interviews. 

Kylie Speer  00:00:43 
We absolutely have, and it's so lovely to have you on the show again. Well, firstly, Anne, what have been the most common immigration law issues faced by the firm this year? 

Anne Frances O'Donoghue  00:00:57 
Well, I think, you know, at the moment, there's many complex visa matters, particularly health and character issues, employee compliance issues, investigations and ministerial invest intervention requests. There's also a growing tension at the policy level, trying to balance increasing immigration numbers with the broader national planning infrastructure capacity, while still addressing acute skill shortages in critical sectors. Our clients are mainly individuals, some corporations, people needing skilled migrants that they can't source here in Australia, and our job is to try and make that process, as you know, as smooth as possible. And we do that by the applications we lodge, make sure they're decision ready. But it's quite acknowledged that there are processing delays with the department at the moment, which also delay some visa outcomes. And it's also a matter of managing clients expectations in these circumstances.

Kylie Speer  00:02:13 
And how is the current geopolitical climate impacting immigration in Australia? 

Anne Frances O'Donoghue  00:02:21 
Well, I suppose global instability, from humanitarian crises to skilled migration to employer compliance, it's a landscape that's very complex. There's interplay with domestic and global factors, and of course, you've got humanitarian crises around the world. You've got Gaza, you've got Afghanistan, just two examples. And I just think at the moment, the 2024 to 25 migration program is planning level of 185,000 places, which approximately 70% are allocated to skilled migrants. Now their net migration, or permanent migration, they say they're going to reduce it, but that doesn't take into account the temporary resident figures. And the temporary resident figures take into account more people that are here temporarily, on students, some who are being sponsored by companies they may want to sponsor them a little bit longer, and some may or may not have a pathway to permanent residents. So there's still a lot of temporary residents in Australia. And additionally, the government has introduced reforms to address the temporary visa system. It's aiming to prevent exploitation. But as I may have indicated earlier, in another session that it only gives certain temporary relief in relation to labor exploitation. It doesn't give them a permanent solution, and it certainly doesn't give them permanent residence. And this business of labor exploitation is worldwide, and it moves into labor exploitation, moves into modern slavery, which is a real curse, and I think it's just difficult to keep it's like a juggling act. You've got many balls in the air, and you're trying to keep things balanced, and then there's something else that comes in, or some problem that then throws out the whole program or increases the numbers, and you've got more issues to consider with. You know, I do hope that the proper funding is put in by the. Government to be able to address the migration numbers, certainly the delays in processing of visas, if more resources could be put in, they do say Justice delayed is justice denied, and a delaying of granting a visa is certainly a delay, a visa that is meritorious and a visa that hasn't got a decision yet is certainly justice derived. 

Kylie Speer  00:05:33 
How, in your opinion, have immigration law boutiques been adjusting to changes in policy and legislation. 

Anne Frances O'Donoghue  00:05:43 
Well, I think boutique practices need to be very pragmatic in the way in which they look at the changes and see how policy is changing, how that's going to affect their clients. I think transparency with clients is essential in this particular market as to what is going on. You can't keep your clients in the dark. They need to be fully appraised of the situation. It is more challenging. But, I mean, that's the role of an immigration lawyer to adapt to the circumstances, be pragmatic and basically find a pathway for the client, if one does exist. I'm not saying in every circumstance a pathway does exist, but your obligation is to give fulsome advice. And if there is a pathway that does exist at the same time, I think it's very important not to be manipulating the system, and unfortunately, some do, and that basically causes a lot of meritless applications. And we've got that at the moment with protection visa cases. And I know, for example, the federal court now has a director who is involved in looking at these cases to see what merit there is to explain to the viewers, to get to the federal court, they've had probably a failed protection visa. They've reviewed that to the tribunal, and then they've gone to the federal court. So there's many factors that interplay. In some cases, people have lodged it themselves because they want to just stay longer. In other cases, they've been given poor advice in relation to the visa options. And you know, this is two or three years down the track, and a lot of money spent. And I think a lot of people don't realize that if you go to the federal court, and you litigate in the federal court, and you're unsuccessful. You have a cost order against you, and you have a cost order against you, and that's a major problem if you then want to look at ministerial intervention, if, in fact, you've you've got that option. So it's like a chess game all the moment, at the moment, you've got all the pieces on the board, and then you've got to work out what the right strategy is for that particular circumstance. That's what I think. But it's good to have experience to rely on, and it's good to be able to mentor younger lawyers in these circumstances, because, you know, experience does count, especially if you come into challenging times. And I would say that we're in challenging times at the moment.  

Kylie Speer  00:08:34 
Well, speaking of challenging times, Anne, how does the current landscape demonstrate the need for greater legal support for vulnerable migrants. 

Anne Frances O'Donoghue  00:08:45 
Well, I always think that access for justice is a very important aspect, and doing pro bono work is also very important. I mean, organizations like bracs do a very good job. I act as a very good job. But there are certain gaps in the system where people are just not who don't have money, in these circumstances, that are not well serviced, and people can be very vulnerable. You know, we've seen a lot of people on temporary visas and where there's been severe worker exploitation, the government did bring in some legislation, the workplace justice visa system in July of 2024 but that only basically gives you a temporary reprieve while you try and find another pathway. So I think trying to get the right advice and the right strategy is very important because, you know, people go to third parties and seek advice, but if they don't get the right advice for this. Out of circumstances, then they're on a pathway which is going to be unsuccessful. And people should sort of shop around, I think, and always get, if they're unsure, a second opinion. It's like with going to a doctor, you know, if you want a second opinion, you should be able to get one. And some of these people come from vulnerable situations, and this are other factors that need to be taken into account. The firm certainly does its fair share of pro bono work. I'd like to do more, but you're running a business at the same time, and pro bono work means that you're doing the work for no professional charge at all. But I must say, but the pro bono work that we've done has been very, very satisfying, and the clients have been really, very, very grateful, and have shown their appreciation in many ways. I think one client from Afghanistan did a tapestry for us, which was hand woven that they had done in Afghanistan with the firm's name on us, which was lovely, but that was a particularly difficult case. I think it took us two years to get the family from Pakistan into Australia, and the the relative was one of the Afghan women judges who had a very traumatic time because her husband committed suicide prior to the fall of Kabul, and then she had two young children, and she was finding it very difficult to cope, and we're fortunately, it took us two years, but we were able to get the brother over and his family, which could give her that support she needed.  

Kylie Speer  00:11:53 
That's an incredible story. Anne, and speaking of cases, can you tell us about the top three biggest cases the firm has worked on in the past 12 months? 

Anne Frances O'Donoghue  00:12:05 
Yes, we've worked on so many cases in the last 12 months, it's hard to pick the top three, but I think one example would be the first case involved a successful appeal on a refused protection visa for a mother and three children, the department had rejected the application on credibility grounds, citing insufficient evidence. On appeal to the Administrative Review Tribunal, we presented a comprehensive legal submission, a whole lot of other evidence. We also submitted post hearing evidence demonstrating psychological independency. I felt that this case, we only took it on at the tribunal level, but if we had it from the start, I think we may have got a protection visa granted upfront without going on review. But when the clients approached us, they'd already had a refuse fee. So that's one another. One was one of the global 202, which was the Afghan National, which we got through. I think actually, this is the one where it was the brother and his family to support his sister with two young children, and she was a widow. It did take some time. We got support from various senators and ministers, but looking at this, when a lot of visa applications are now being refused by the Australian Government on the basis that they don't have settlement capacity, not that they're not a genuine refugee, but they don't have settlement capacity. We were lucky in this case where we didn't get that outcome, and we got the positive outcome, but there was constant pressure for around about two years. I mean, at one stage I thought, are we going to get through this or not? But we did, and it had a successful outcome. A third case was an unlawful non citizen in immigration detention who was barred from applying for a substantive visa under Section 195 of the migration act. He was in a committed relationship with an Australian citizen, father of three Australian children after his bridging E visa application was refused, re challenged the decision in the tribunal, arguing that the delegate had misapplied the relevant legal principles, we submitted that a bridging visa could be granted, and the case was remitted back to the department for a decision. We've done countless other cases and but they're the ones that spring to mind, which are, you know, we've, we've got a very strong. Corporate legal practice too. We've got good outcomes for corporations in these circumstances, but the human interest cases are always interesting to discuss, because there are individuals and people behind those situations. 

Kylie Speer  00:15:19 
You touched on mentoring a little earlier. How have you highlighted the importance of working in immigration law to young lawyers? 

Anne Frances O'Donoghue  00:15:29 
Well, I suppose you lead by example, and I don't set myself up as a paragon of virtue in any way, but I do think you have to be committed and emphasized with the clients. And that's what I tell my legal staff, because if you don't, if you're not on board with the clients issues, you're not going to fight as hard as you can for that client. So there has to be that sort of question of trust between the solicitor and the client, which I think is very important. And I also tell the staff that, you know, you're just not there for the good times. You're also there for times when you may get a visa refusal and we need to go on review. You've got to be there. And, you know, telling a client, I think one client on a Google review, we did do the primary case, and we felt that it was bad. It the case officer made an error, and we went on the tribunal and we got it through, but it was carrying the client through all that that's very important. You've got to be there through the good times and the bad. And I don't know how many times I've been told by clients that come to us for advice or second opinions, that they've tried to contact their representative and now the representatives not taking their calls. You know, I think it's very important to be there for that client. And you know, if you are transparent with a client in the first place, if you're below prospects or limited prospects of success, at least the client would be prepared for that type of thing. But in a lot of situations, these people that come to us have been fully expecting a proper outcome, and then they get this result with a refusal, and then they come to us for an opinion. What do we do now? So it again? It's managing for younger lawyers, managing client, their particular what they think, what they think the outcome is going to be, and being there and being totally transparent throughout the whole process. 

Kylie Speer  00:17:50 
And finally, Anne as a leading woman in this field of law, what kind of impact do you hope your career leaves on other female lawyers working in immigration law.  

Anne Frances O'Donoghue  00:18:03 
Well, I think, you know, be humble through a good job. Never give up. And if you don't feel that you're getting the credit for what you've just what you're doing. Just keep on pushing, because there's quite, there's quite, quite a lot of experience that you get over longevity and don't experience think you're going to get instant success. It takes time to build up skills and give yourself that option, but I think it's very important that they've got someone to turn to in a mentoring capacity. And what do you think? And I suppose also never apportion blame. If something's gone wrong, never apportion blame. Look for a solution. Say, Well, this is what's happened. It wasn't an outcome we expected. But what can we do to fix the problem? And I think that positive attitude, rather than trying to apportion blame, will get you much further, and it also will increase your skill level, because you're looking at other ways of solving a problem, and you're also looking back whether you could have done this better, or whether if you'd done a different there's always these issues, But they're my thoughts. But I think women add a particular window to immigration law. I think the much better on the emotional intelligence side and empathy side, and although you've got to be very. Very academically switched on with the migration legislation. You've got to be able to relate to your client. And if you can't relate to your client and show some empathy, because you may be asking for clients that are really bad immigration history, you can't be judgmental. You have to be empathetic, realistic with what is achievable and what's not achievable. 

Kylie Speer  00:20:24 
Such great advice. Well, thank you so much for your time today, and congratulations once again, Anne, it's always so lovely and inspiring speaking with you. 

Anne Frances O'Donoghue  00:20:37 
Well, it's it's a privilege. And thank you so much for your time. And it's always pleasurable to have this type of discussion. And I hope some young lawyers out there that may be watching this will benefit from it absolutely. 

Kylie Speer  00:20:53 
And thank you, of course, to our viewers for watching the latest episode of Australasian lawyer TV. We look forward to seeing you again soon you.